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Troublemaker:
--- Quote from: nero on November 16, 2015, 07:40:18 pm ---And basically, on the last posts on the topic of the attacks: People need to realize that the attackers were all people born in France/Belgium, they weren't immigrants. And France is having a huge problem with the following generations of algerian and morocco people who live there for a long time. Because the politics neglect them and right wing parties fight their public fight on their backs.
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They weren't, but their parents or grandparents were, same shit. And what do you think, why do France and Belgium (and maybe UK) have that problem and other countries like Poland, Greece or Hungary (for example) don't have?
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 08:31:33 pm ---you know their kids gonna grow up and get own kids... european marked gonna go down and almost whole west european culture gonna be fucked up. for example Germany is now still strong player, but in 20 years, when 60% population gonna be non-working muslims, they wont make earings and country gonna turn into shithole. no country earing = no free money for socials = riots and mess = making middle-east style mess in EU
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That's because they just don't fit in Europe and individual cultures of each country. Instead of adapting to the culture of the majority, they will, probably by force, insist the acceptance of their culture as an equal one - and then the situation will be up to no good. Unemployment factor isn't that much important, immigrants usually think and act the same way anywhere and anytime, no matter if they are jobless or not.
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 08:31:33 pm ---if things in Siria get back, then we would have to force them back. this would be extremally critised later, but only sensible option
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If they don't like it here in Europe, they can always freely go back. Nobody forced them to come here, they have done it on their own will (or maybe there are other reasons of which are we not aware).
nero:
Some of the things I am able to read here just make me sick.
MadMax:
Trouble, unemployment is actually probably the biggest factor, aside culture diffrences.
Read carefully. I m gonna use Germany as example as it is best to do.
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Situation now:
Germany is one of main countries in Europe, with leading incomes and generally good working industry and business.
Germany is full of people in productive age, working and paying taxes. Taxes paid allow germans to have big social care and refounds.
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Situation in 20-30 years future, if hypotetically muslim take more or less 40% population:
Germany isn't stong anymore. Mostly of immigrants (who were accepted and let in in 2015/2016) have many kids, who have another loads of kids. They do not work, only are on social care.
Overal amount people in productive age is reduced. Less people work, so less people pay taxes. Less taxes paid, lead to situation where country budget isn't that big as before.
Social care and other refounds are taken from constantly decreasing budget. Goes like that for few years. At some point taxes income isn't big enough to make sure social care and other refounds be keep on. Social is decreased. People who were on it, are getting angry. We talk about huge amount of people. At some point social is so low or totally taken out. These unhappy people masses go out on streets, demand getting social back. Government can't do it, coz country budget isn't enough for it. People co crazy and start riots, they say they are threaten bad and so on.
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This is one of main problems with immigrants. Not terrorism, coz it can be done by anyone.
Look on example of USA, it was made mostly by immigrants, but due to lack of social care, they were forced to start working.
The only right choice it to take immigrants, BUT do not give them any financial help. They have to work their stay here, not just comming for money.
As You said, such situation isn't big problem in Grece, Poland, Hungary and so on. Thats coz we have extremally low money offered in social care.
There were group of immigrants we helped them here. They had home, food and basics to live. You know what they did after 2 weeks? Escaped to Germany.
They were totally save here, coz no war all around, but just not enough money given. One of them, when found out he is gonna be located in Poland, said that "if this is case, then I'mma back to Siria/Turkey". Some escape war, agree but mostly just go to rich countries, thats all. Grece, Italy, Hungary or ex-soviet block isn't intresting place for them. They aim Germany, France, UK or north, scandinavian countries - Norway, Sweden.
Troublemaker:
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 10:22:32 pm ---
Situation now:
Germany is one of main countries in Europe, with leading incomes and generally good working industry and business.
Germany is full of people in productive age, working and paying taxes. Taxes paid allow germans to have big social care and refounds.
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Situation in 20-30 years future, if hypotetically muslim take more or less 40% population:
Germany isn't stong anymore. Mostly of immigrants (who were accepted and let in in 2015/2016) have many kids, who have another loads of kids. They do not work, only are on social care.
Overal amount people in productive age is reduced. Less people work, so less people pay taxes. Less taxes paid, lead to situation where country budget isn't that big as before.
Social care and other refounds are taken from constantly decreasing budget. Goes like that for few years. At some point taxes income isn't big enough to make sure social care and other refounds be keep on. Social is decreased. People who were on it, are getting angry. We talk about huge amount of people. At some point social is so low or totally taken out. These unhappy people masses go out on streets, demand getting social back. Government can't do it, coz country budget isn't enough for it. People co crazy and start riots, they say they are threaten bad and so on.
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Your situation development prognosis looks like Germany will become a dystopian society lol. Well, that's one of the scenarios how things would progress, but there are also other possibilities. It is a big factor actually, but not the key factor + the absence of unemployment in immigrant population (as if they all have jobs) could be counterproductive. Natural born Germans could lose their jobs in favor of immigrants and then the tensions would rise quickly. I think that state of the union primarily depends on how would immigrants and their culture get accepted by native population and vice versa. If both sides are much different in many ways, living in the mutual community will last short. This is not how would I want it to look like, these are the facts based on similar cases from history (in case someone gets butthurt about my opinion).
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 10:22:32 pm ---This is one of main problems with immigrants. Not terrorism, coz it can be done by anyone.
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That's probably true. But you see, that's the catch actually. They emigrated from their homeland and immigrated into some country with hopes of achieving a better life for themselves and their families. If they didn't get what they expected from the country in which they immigrated into, why would they rise some protests/revolts/rebellions? You can't be like: "Hey, I immigrated into your country and now you have to give me everything I ask for". WTF... You have to be thankful for even getting accepted there and not dumped out. That's why I said, they can always come back where they come from if they're not happy.
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 10:22:32 pm ---Look on example of USA, it was made mostly by immigrants, but due to lack of social care, they were forced to start working.
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It wasn't due to lack of social care, it was due to beginning of industrial era. Europe and USA both transferred from agriculture (as their primary source of funds) to industrialization about at the same time, so technically, European immigrants who expected to live better in the USA got 'tricked' because at that time USA was just following the steps of Western Europe.
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 10:22:32 pm ---The only right choice it to take immigrants, BUT do not give them any financial help. They have to work their stay here, not just comming for money.
--- End quote ---
Agree.
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 10:22:32 pm ---As You said, such situation isn't big problem in Grece, Poland, Hungary and so on. Thats coz we have extremally low money offered in social care.
--- End quote ---
No, it's because of the fact that these countries aren't multicultural nor there are chances that they will be such in a close future.
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 10:22:32 pm ---Some escape war, agree but mostly just go to rich countries, thats all. Grece, Italy, Hungary or ex-soviet block isn't intresting place for them. They aim Germany, France, UK or north, scandinavian countries - Norway, Sweden.
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I was also pointing the same.
MadMax:
--- Quote from: Troublemaker on November 16, 2015, 11:33:09 pm ---You can't be like: "Hey, I immigrated into your country and now you have to give me everything I ask for". WTF... You have to be thankful for even getting accepted there and not dumped out. That's why I said, they can always come back where they come from if they're not happy.
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thats how they act, they go from place to place and if something isn't like they want, they demand to be done.
they do not respect other countries laws or culture, they demand to be done like they want, thats all.
Look on Sweden, where they want to take control on whole areas
whereever they go, they force own culture without respect to original country culture
they force women to wear these shits, and if they refuse, then call them offensive and provocating.
for example they took over a london park and forbidden to take dogs on a walk here
--- Quote from: Troublemaker on November 16, 2015, 11:33:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: MadMax on November 16, 2015, 10:22:32 pm ---As You said, such situation isn't big problem in Grece, Poland, Hungary and so on. Thats coz we have extremally low money offered in social care.
--- End quote ---
No, it's because of the fact that these countries aren't multicultural nor there are chances that they will be such in a close future.
--- End quote ---
u'd be suprised how multicultular they are. in poland we got russians, gyspies, people from turkey, ukraine and so on, just multicultular but mostly christian or christian-related ones
as I said, I'm not aware of terrorism, coz thats no matter who, always can happen. I'm aware that they force their culture whereever they come.
just listen what Ex-muslim guy says. keep on mind that his choice made him put on deathlists for islamists
it's old video from 4 years ago, but a lot of what he said, it absolutly true
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mljjb18M14M[/youtube]
if someone who was SON OF IMPORTANT islamist LEADER decided to turn against it, that means something serious
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