Author Topic: Races database cleaning  (Read 12894 times)

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Offline Madeyes

Races database cleaning
« on: December 21, 2013, 11:44:57 am »
Hi there. As we are aproching nearly 6500 tracks in AX, we have a lot of similar races, a lot of very bad stuff, and a lot of old stuff too.

I was thinking, and I'm not the only one, that it would be great to have like a selection of some nice races to keep, and to throw all the rest in the garbage.

Server is getting old and most of the active players have got a solid experience of the game and races, mainly because we have a large database of races, so players are now more certain to qualify something that is good or not. The level of players have also inscreased, that permise more freedom and originality in building.

A cleaning of old races, and maybe on some non-old ones that are not good will let more room for new creations, and permite to have a race cycle of creations by mostly active players. And start building again with the skills the community gathered other the years, and start a new cycle of creation that is gonna be nicer and most of all less aproximative.

This would be a step further into AX credibility and will garantee a fun and smooth racing experiance.

Dont really know how it can be done and/or by who. But I think the community really need that to continue to progress in the good way, not to vote random stuff, not to be scared of votting stuff almost everybody will hate, not to have votting pole with only unknown random races, etc etc We can now exploit the SA map with more accuracy so again I really think this is needed.


Offline [MAF]Karlis

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2013, 12:17:59 pm »
many admins never delete old races because they are "classic", but i think that's bullshit.
if a race is repetitive, overused, or with bad cps, it should be deleted, no matter when it was created.
but as a general wipe, that probably won't happen.

Offline [FSR]Ush

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2013, 12:21:31 pm »
I partly disagree Karlis, these races can have a higher nostalgic value towards that admin, which makes it harder to delete it. But I agree races of any sort, old or moomans, should get deleted if they don't qualify anymore for our 'race standards' (which is a quite vague term tho).

Offline Scorpion.

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2013, 12:46:29 pm »
an other thing, there're over 6000 track , but when im online, as if sometimes i race ever on same tracks.
i think is necessary to implement the script of the race list

Offline [MAF]Snoopy

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2013, 01:02:58 pm »
I don't quite understand the logic of wanting to delete old normal races just because they're old and may be not up to standard anymore. Some of those old 2007/2008 races may be old or bad but that should be forgivable for that time frame, what you should be dealing with is new bad races that get accepted or added, there is no excuse for it now.

Offline [MAF]Karlis

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2013, 01:19:52 pm »
I don't quite understand the logic of wanting to delete old normal races just because they're old and may be not up to standard anymore. Some of those old 2007/2008 races may be old or bad but that should be forgivable for that time frame, what you should be dealing with is new bad races that get accepted or added, there is no excuse for it now.

no one is proposing to delete old races just because they are old, but being an old race doesn't grant it any immunity, now it is as good as any new race.
i might understand wanting to keep the old records, but those will eventually be deleted anyway, so that's not an issue.
there's nothing to be forgivable for, and if it doesn't match the standards, it should be deleted.

Offline [MAF]Snoopy

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2013, 02:24:58 pm »
Considering AdrenalineX was pretty new at those times and people were still learning how to use buildmode, and creating races before there was any proper tutorial out there it should be forgiven. Now there is no excuse because everything is there to help people make good races.

Offline [MAF]Karlis

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2013, 02:36:43 pm »
it doesn't mean their races should stay. its like with any old thing. for example, old, inadequate pc, that was good at the time, would still be thrown out since it is no longer good enough.

only reason to restrict deletion of any kind of races is if admins are not deleting them for adequate reasons, but that would just partially escape the problem and not fix it. you are free to report, if you feel that some deletions are not fair.

Offline Rob_Zamora

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2013, 04:24:18 pm »
Nah don't remove the old ones, some races are just disliked cause it's a trick/skill race. You can delete the REAL bad ones but not the tricky ones

Offline [MAF]Snoopy

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2013, 04:40:41 pm »
Nah don't remove the old ones, some races are just disliked cause it's a trick/skill race. You can delete the REAL bad ones but not the tricky ones

Offline [MAF]Karlis

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2013, 05:13:53 pm »
i never implied that i wanted to get rid of the tricky, unique or hard races, in fact i'm a fan of them.
what i think we should get rid of are, for example, 1000 infernus races around the main highways, or boring 5-lappers.
we had a clean like that before, but we still have way too many.

Offline [LSR]Cassidy

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2013, 05:45:13 pm »
How much races can the server handle? Is there for example a maximum? Maybe we have in a couple of years 10.000 races, is that the maximum or is for example 50.000 races the maximum? I was just wondering...  :)

Offline Troublemaker

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2013, 06:28:38 pm »
Most of races I've raced so far are good. Only about 3-7% are really bad and should be deleted. Can't really name them cause I don't have photographic memory. Admins should, starting from now, give more attention on race's structure, for example, if it has a few bad CPs, it should be deleted. One bad CP could be forgiven, cause it ain't easy to make a perfect race, with all CPs being placed on a perfect positions. Also, long and "boring" races should be moved to some new section called "Long races" or something (if the race is good, but most of players cba to play it cause it's long).

Offline Torete_[GT]

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2013, 06:38:40 pm »
i never implied that i wanted to get rid of the tricky, unique or hard races, in fact i'm a fan of them.
what i think we should get rid of are, for example, 1000 infernus races around the main highways, or boring 5-lappers.
we had a clean like that before, but we still have way too many.
Well, actually /TT mode was made for tricky races: those which are hard to finish/delay with, so in my humbly opinion they shouldn't be added to /Race mode. I consider that if they're challenging enough, they are able to be sent to that manner.

Indeed we need to get rid of those long and boring races which only 10% people like, and we've to admit that percent makes reference to novices who can't drive properly in the city or country side.

As a whole, I agree with Madeyes's suggestion and I would like to add my own related to this: implementing a new option in /Buildmode to set the type of race you're building (Drag, Circuit, etc.) to make it easier for players to know what they're actually voting (and even show the vehicle next to the name of the race in /Vote poles, but I partly agree with this one as slow cars/unliked will never get voted).
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 06:55:05 pm by Torete_[GT] »

Offline Rob_Zamora

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2013, 08:41:12 pm »
No, I don't think tricky races should be limited to /tt, they'll just probably be whored around, besides the fun of the "tricky" races are the results not the high scores. Are you sure /tt was made for tricky races? I'm quite sure not all are tricky.

I also don't think you should put what kind of races they are, the way it is right now is the best. No one knows what car and path, so no one expects anything and the more random the results are

Offline [MAF]Karlis

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2013, 09:10:26 pm »
just to be clear, i don't want a wipe or something, just if someone sees an objectively bad and boring race it should be deleted, without looking whenever it was made in 2008 or 2013 and without using time as an excuse to keep it, so that's kind of middle opinion in this topic.

Offline Madeyes

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2013, 06:02:39 am »
Karlis you are 100% right the problem is that it doesnt happen the very most of the time :/

Offline MadMax

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2013, 02:33:04 pm »
if they got added
that means they somehow passed standards of their times

accordning to this, it's like forbidding driving or even scrapping all classic cars that passed safety tests of their time*, just becouse now they wouldn't**
the same with races
'bad' races are still very small percent, so whats the problem if 10 or 20 (hell, even 50) of 6000(!) may be 'bad'
they also show how racing changed by the time, and this is quite nice to see

instead of getting rid of them, they should be taken with even more care, no matter if it's bad or good, after all it's a part of looooooong server history

don't like, don't race
dozens of races i really don't like are on server, but i don't yell about them (well ok i do, but nothing more), just change mode or so

the real problem happens now, here
out of recently created races, over 60% are timetrials. Is MULTIplayer dying or so? This is kind of a problem to take care, coz with this rate, in a year or so, we won't be MULTI player racing server anymore,
can get same result just downloading Adrenaline 1.06 and play against time offline


*mostly becouse there were no crash tests at these times, but whatever
**just an example

PLEASE, IGNORE ALL MY SPELLING MISTAKES AND OTHER TYPOS True racing fans enjoy horsepower in ANY form

Offline [MAF]Karlis

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2013, 04:56:31 pm »
bad example, because if muscle cars doesn't have certain safety features, they are not allowed on the roads either.
it's how things get outdated. it may have passed standards at their time, but then it gets deprecated, and eventually support is dropped.
and there is no point keeping bad races just because its a minority, if its a bad race, del it.

Offline MadMax

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2013, 05:11:50 pm »
bad example, because if muscle cars doesn't have certain safety features, they are not allowed on the roads either.

going bit offtopic, but as i said
this is a popular VW Golf MK2 crash test
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn5Ioj7za3Y[/youtube]

clearly doesn't pass current standards, yet see dozens of them on streets and as long as they are able to drive, they will

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Offline [MAF]Cthulhu

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2013, 05:45:44 pm »
lol max, that's something totally different

Offline MadMax

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2013, 05:57:44 pm »
it's extacly same, just in more visible example

race is made in 2008, it pass 2008 standards, got added. Today it's bad and if it was made now, wouldn't pass current standards. Leftovers are still on server.

car is made in 80s, it pass 80s standards, it's produced. Today it's bad and if it was made now, wouldn't pass current standards. Leftovers are still on roads.


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Offline [FSR]Ush

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2013, 05:59:08 pm »
Go to Cuba to see old cars

Offline MadMax

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2013, 06:05:50 pm »
hehe ye but they are there only coz stupid politicy, not allowing to import any others.
they have to keep their ones running as long as possible

lol, imagine if AX was like Cuba, we would have old switch races only :L

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Offline [MAF]Snoopy

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2013, 06:22:13 pm »
My point still stands.

Concentrate on making new races acceptable, and not adding forklift races on walls or 12 second downhill races with 50 bumps inbetween.

Bad races aren't always that bad, hell of a lot more fun than some of the shit that is created these days.

Offline [MAF]Karlis

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2013, 07:41:24 pm »
what i consider a bad race is, for example, 5-lap 8-track in an airport, which would be way less fun than forklift races on walls or 12 second downhill races you mentioned.

Offline [MAF]Snoopy

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2013, 08:06:46 pm »
Difference of opinions, doesn't mean they are bad and should be deleted. That would be just be selfish.

Offline MadMax

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2013, 11:40:17 pm »
what i consider a bad race is, for example, 5-lap 8-track in an airport, which would be way less fun than forklift races on walls or 12 second downhill races you mentioned.
8-Track fun depends on amount of players so agree (more = better)

but ones that i find 'bad' are just very random and repetitive ones, that fall into flood of other similar races
sorry mooman, but Slamvan Series (and any other 'series') fall into this category, imo

better to have 1 5 minutes race that is unforgettable, instead 20 similar ones...
quoting R
"quallity over quanity" and thats why i would keep every special, diffrent race

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Offline Mute.

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2013, 12:08:50 am »
shit races should be deleted, whether old or new. if you feel attached to any of the races on the server, i think you need to rethink what you consider to be important in your life.

Offline [MAF]Snoopy

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2013, 12:39:36 am »
if you feel attached to any of the races on the server, i think you need to rethink what you consider to be important in your life.

As irrelevant as this is, same goes for record whoring.

Offline [MAF]Vertigo

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2013, 03:02:36 am »
if you feel attached to any of the races on the server, i think you need to rethink what you consider to be important in your life.

As irrelevant as this is, same goes for record whoring.

True.

Personally I'm pretty harsh on myself when I make races now.

I'd rather keep a shit old race, than a mediocre/decent one I just made.

Offline Mute.

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2013, 03:29:41 am »

As irrelevant as this is, same goes for record whoring.

it's not really irrelevant, it's a decent point, but if i were to delete a shit record, that wouldn't benefit anybody, but deleting a shit race, that benefits everyone who doesn't have the misfortune of having to play the deleted race.

records and races aren't really the same thing though and while i would rather my records weren't deleted, i wouldn't lose any sleep if they were.

Offline McD0n3ld

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2013, 02:37:28 pm »
it's extacly same, just in more visible example

race is made in 2008, it pass 2008 standards, got added. Today it's bad and if it was made now, wouldn't pass current standards. Leftovers are still on server.

car is made in 80s, it pass 80s standards, it's produced. Today it's bad and if it was made now, wouldn't pass current standards. Leftovers are still on roads.



I'll not drive a bad car made in 80s, so i won't race a bad race made in 08'

Offline MadMax

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2013, 02:43:22 pm »
it's extacly same, just in more visible example

race is made in 2008, it pass 2008 standards, got added. Today it's bad and if it was made now, wouldn't pass current standards. Leftovers are still on server.

car is made in 80s, it pass 80s standards, it's produced. Today it's bad and if it was made now, wouldn't pass current standards. Leftovers are still on roads.



I'll not drive a bad car made in 80s, so i won't race a bad race made in 08'

don't like, don't race
dozens of races i really don't like are on server, but i don't yell about them (well ok i do, but nothing more), just change mode or so
noone forces you, there are other modes as well

PLEASE, IGNORE ALL MY SPELLING MISTAKES AND OTHER TYPOS True racing fans enjoy horsepower in ANY form

Offline Mute.

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2013, 08:48:10 pm »
lol i don't understand why this is even up for debate, if an old race is shit, delete it, if it's good, keep it. no one's saying delete every race from 2006-2012, we're just saying delete the bad ones (old or new) rather than giving them immunity from deletion.

noone forces you, there are other modes as well

there are other different modes but i wouldn't say they're as good as or the same as racemode. /tt isn't like /race really, the times are much harder to beat and for those who aren't whores, there is no one competing with them to finish in a strong position so your point isn't really a very good one.

Offline [MAF]Snoopy

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2013, 09:40:06 pm »
I suppose we all have a different view on what's shit. Most people say a race is shit because they hit a lamp post or because it's using a vehicle they don't like.

I see ratings with 20 dislikes and 12 likes just because it's a Super GT race and then everyone shouts delete. It's unfair.

Offline MadMax

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2013, 11:29:16 pm »
lol i don't understand why this is even up for debate, if an old race is shit, delete it, if it's good, keep it. no one's saying delete every race from 2006-2012, we're just saying delete the bad ones (old or new) rather than giving them immunity from deletion.


this is good point, but

many of these races are not shit, they got just tricky placed cp (not bad placed, i mean cp placed in way that gives few alternate ways) and people call it shit, coz they are not used to make way, they want all placed like on a 'ucking table, without any thinking, just brainless following cps

this is main problem
can mention several races with that, which are in fact good, but due to this (stupid) logic they are called shit

it it's a shitty race (for example "Hotring by russianwarrior" which i deleted personally, it was plain bad even for 2008 race!) it should be deleted, but if it's a good race with tricky cp... then shouldn't... same goes for vehicle
SlutButtFucker is a funny hotdog race, one of VERY FEW on server, yet deleted few times (hopefully backups survived during these years)

I suppose we all have a different view on what's shit. Most people say a race is shit because they hit a lamp post or because it's using a vehicle they don't like.

I see ratings with 20 dislikes and 12 likes just because it's a Super GT race and then everyone shouts delete. It's unfair.

this is very good point, ppl are fucking biased, rating craps very high just coz of stupid and offensive names or cars they like
i m fighting with these biased ratings. many good races got bad ratings only cos of vehicle (normal car instead overused one, a flying vehicle, a parkour etc)

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Offline [MAF]Karlis

Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2013, 12:07:15 am »
you are missing the point, we have always ignored ratings, when deciding for deletion since people don't know what they want, and tricky races are more than welcome. what i think is wrong is shit 8-track or highway race that isn't deleted because its old.
to be deleted race must be bad, and my point always was that it being old is not an excuse.

Offline [MAF]Snoopy

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2013, 12:17:43 am »
Nothing wrong with those 8-track races. You have to accomodate for everyone and not think about yourself. You aren't the only racer..

Offline MadMax

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Re: Races database cleaning
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2013, 01:17:19 am »
you are missing the point, we have always ignored ratings, when deciding for deletion since people don't know what they want, and tricky races are more than welcome. what i think is wrong is shit 8-track or highway race that isn't deleted because its old.
to be deleted race must be bad, and my point always was that it being old is not an excuse.

well i don't remember any shitty currently added 8-Track race
only ones i know are rather good (orginal one in stadium and my custom desert one)
mostly 8tracks are just maps, they are good imo

highway races are very hard actually, getting 0.1 sec on highway can be lot hardeer than 1 second in city

PLEASE, IGNORE ALL MY SPELLING MISTAKES AND OTHER TYPOS True racing fans enjoy horsepower in ANY form